Wolfgang already made it clear water was used in Acts 8 but was disputing total immersion . Admit that you still worship this man or feel you have his mantle bestowed upon you. The third to fifth centuries: The sacrament of Reconciliation was now a public thing celebrated by the whole community. Baptism is also a challenge to keep thinking of yourself that way and to keep living like it. This article covers some of the lesser known failed predictions and changed date doctrine of the Watchtower Society. when? Once again, it is clear that this baptism was by immersion, for the Bible records that they “went down into the water” and “came up out of the water” (Acts 8:38, 39). Reread post 1. To claim that “going into the water” and “come up out of the water” is clear indication for a complete immersion is nothing more than an assumption, and one which seems to not take into consideration what the rivers mentioned in those areas most likely looked like …. FYI: even Wierwielle admitted that there is water baptism in the Book of Acts, although he sees it as somehow part of Torah[?!! As a result of the elaborate baptismal preparations and ceremonies, “an almost magical aura began to be associated with baptism, resulting finally in the doctrine of baptismal regeneration (power in the water itself).”[11] This doctrine, combined with questions regarding original sin, gave way to the practice of paedobaptism, in order to ensure an infant’s salvation. And like many devotions, it has evolved over time. It seems your disagreeing on the METHOD only. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Which to be fair was a legitimate point he made. The optional form on the right allows recurring donations! Many times it is to make things more convenient for ourselves and other times is because of a need to change to stay alive. Wolfgang Over thousands of years Baptism has been a tradition in the Church and Christian communities all over the world. To wash away all other sins committed before the time of Baptism if the person is beyond the age of infancy. What to Expect When Your Child Is Getting Two Year Molars? The main purpose of Wierwelle was exalting himself by making himself a self proclaimed prophet. We’re “examining” Acts 8 based on your criticisms of Beth’s article. The great model of our baptism, then, is the baptism of Jesus in the River Jordan. Over time this word has changed in use and is primarily used today in reference to the act of giving an infant a Christian name. Why Does My Baby’s Chin Quiver Occasionally? 2. All works about biblical days and culture agrees I’ve ever read agree that men did not touch women in public (some even claim that not even husbands would do so with their wives) in a manner which we see nowadays when people in Christian groups carry out their immersion baptisms in water … !! Could it be John was decreasing while Jesus was increasing. Veteran Australian travel writer John Borthwick looks at how far we’ve come (and gone). In baptism there is a real sense of being joined with other believers, not just participating in an individual act of our own spiritual journey. [14] As a result, adult baptisms became increasingly rarer and the elaborate system of pre-baptismal instruction was naturally replaced by post-baptismal instruction. in the teaching of John the baptist and also in Jesus’ teaching to his apostles (cp Mt 3:11 / Acts 1:5). Water baptism was valid before pentecost. where did Jesus instruct his apostles to baptize others in water in his name? But how well has he performed over those turbulent ... “You can’t say that at a time when the … Wolfgang admitted the enuch was baptized with water but according to him it was the enuchs idea alone. To remove the consequences of the 'original sin'. plus cities are built around a major water supply . Wolfgang After receiving the gospel joyfully, “he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him” (Acts 8:38). This matter deserves attention because the biblical practice of baptism is related to the issue of eternal salvation, so straying from the truth of the Bible could be costly. Instead, he was immediately … If one desires to follow and obey Jesus, one must be baptized. Often you would arrive home before they did. 3.Peter and the rest were ignorant of this change for over 3 years . In baptism, a person confesses his or her faith in Christ. really? However, in the Latin rite (or the Roman Catholic Church), most often Confirmation is not celebrated at the same time as Baptism. John the Baptist, who is considered a forerunner to Christianity, used baptism as the central sacrament of his messianic movement. They say people detest change but we are changing things all the time, our styles, our likes and dislikes,etc. The verse should be read in a manner that is consistent with the rest of the NT practice of baptism. Later, in the book of Acts, Phillip preaches the gospel to an Ethiopian eunuch as he rode along in his chariot. Later, in the book of Acts, Phillip preaches the gospel to an Ethiopian eunuch as he rode along in his chariot. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But one thing is without a doubt is under Jesus’ authority they were watervbaptizing more than what was being done under John’s authority as these verses state. A baptism, for those unclear of the concept, is a Christian sacrament of admission and adoption into the religion. God always provides for those truly seeking Him so my guess is water baptism was the means of remission of sin during exile or a polluted Temple. So then, the matter is rather simple: During the second and third centuries, the practice of immersion began to give way to other forms of baptism, including pouring or sprinkling with water. Peter and John had to travel many days then had to pray then had to LAY HANDS on them. I would think that context would determine which shade of meaning is utilized, The first recorded baptisms were immersions performed by John the Baptist in the Jordan River. certainly, water was involved in John’s baptism …. As I already have pointed out, Jesus could not have given command for a water baptism, and especially not while John the baptist was still baptizing as well! The Water that Divides: The Baptism Debate. Joh 4,1-2 does NOT say anything about Jesus instructing and commanding a baptism with water … it records that “the Pharisees HEARD that Jesus baptized and made more disciples than John …” and then even clarifies that Jesus did not baptize anyone, only his disciples … who obviously (note the context from the previous chapter) had been disciples of John and carried out John’s water baptism at that time … There was no other water baptism in effect except the one which God had ordained to be carried out with John the Baptist’s ministry. well, which baptism was to follow from Pentecost (“not many days hence”) onward upon John’s water baptism? is that an impossibility? The water baptism carried out prior to Pentecost was John’s baptism with water … thus it should be obvious that the disciples continued in those early days of Jesus’ ministry to baptize others with John’s baptism (remember, according to John and Jesus there was no other water baptism being performed ! I was and am NOT “examining” Acts 8 … I have commented and asked questions about Acts 1:5 and Mt 3:11 and (as usual?) no … I am saying that the incident of the first Gentiles becoming members of the body of Christ was rather astonishing and extra-ordinary for Peter …(context makes that rather clear, starting from the unusual revelation Peter was given to even get going to the house of Cornelius) As I have already mentioned, Peter did NOT subject the course of Cornelius to water baptism, even though at first – while he did not remember what Jesus had said – he had commanded a water baptism which however was not – because he did remember what the lord had said – carried out. And like many devotions, it has evolved over time. After receiving the gospel joyfully, “he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him” (Acts 8:38). The fact is the verse does not deny Jesus baptized his disciples himself personally while his disciple baptized others in his name. George's christening is the exception rather than the rule. Perhaps Prof. Buzzard (who also has propagated that “complete immersion” is the biblical method of water baptism) can explain why “going into the water” and “coming up out of the water” only means in one case but not the other “complete immersion”? Wolfgang Which no one until people like Wierwielle came along to contradict. Do you have anything that doesnt take massive training to see. La Habra: Lockman Foundation, 1995. http://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/strongs-exhaustive-concordance/ (accessed March 20, 2013). “I do not know why people reading the records somehow do not see this … most likely it has to do with being pre-occupied with “WATER baptism” due to their own experience and church teachings etc …. The fact is the verse does not deny Jesus baptized his disciples himself personally while his disciple baptized others in his name. The whole passage was about why Jesus left for Galilee . Actually, the verses do NOT say anything that they were baptizing “under Jesus’ authority (as if Jesus had been giving such command)” ! From above verse which is a historical reference by whom and when. “were already water baptized in the name of Jesus” ?? You have to be kidding , did the enuch show manifestations, does the verse even claim he received the HS? [3] It can be seen from these texts, that Christian baptism was a response to repentance and belief in the gospel message, and involved receiving forgiveness of sin and the gift of the Holy Spirit. God was teaching Peter a lesson by showing Peter not to prejudge people on race because even some non jews have had Faith in God without the conversion to judaism. It is believed that faith alone saves, and as a result “Baptists unanimously assert that baptism, church membership, the Lord’s Supper and good works, while important, are never necessary for salvation; only grace through faith is sufficient.”[19] Thus for the Baptists and the many other denominations who hold similar views, baptism is an important symbolic response to a person’s saving faith and are an outward expression of the inward reality that has already taken place. 15% OFF ON ORDERS OVER $100 + FREE SHIPPING. Thanks. Thanks. Maybe I missed this, but I’m curious as to whether baptism as a symbolic cleansing of sin was practiced in the Hebrew bible. Maybe Philip burned them with fire misleading them with a verse from Daniel . how silly then of Peter to talk about them needing to be baptized again ? Or is it possible that people try to be zealous for something and practice something because they are ignorant of the fact that something new has come about in the course of revelation of God’s plan? You cant just take single verses to redifine historical events ,we must understand the sigle verses by historical events which in this case proves your understanding of the single verses False . have a look in the mirror …. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. how silly then of Peter to talk about them needing to be baptized again ? [16] Richert, Scott P. “The Sacrament of Baptism .” About.Com: Catholicism. I love how God provides so many opportunities to covenant with him. Th e outcome is a recommendation that interests and concerns have changed over time, off ering Pentecostal theology new opportunities. the former is done with water, the other with holy spirit !”. Same with the Samaritans …, The expression “holy spirit “came on them” / “fell on them” describes in the context that they utilized holy spirit after Peter and John had laid hands on them etc …. Although new subject matter has evolved, the human condition, nature, and events still continue to capture the attention of artists. Have your feelings about baptism changed over your lifetime? However, the time of upheaval that occurred during the formation of the early church led to an evolution of methods and beliefs concerning baptism. There is absolutely nothing so far that could even make me entertain your belief . Some parents simply dress their child in a plain white shirt and a pair of trousers made for infants. Since the text clearly says that THEY (that is, the one baptizing and the one being baptized, and not just the one being baptized) “went down into the water” and “came up out of the water”, it would seem that according to your understanding of these expressions in this record is that BOTH the one baptizing and the one being baptized are “completely immersed” ??! in addition, your understanding of what happened in Acts 10 and Acts 8 with Peter and Philip contradicts what John and Jesus taught about baptism with water and baptism with holy spirit … so then, what did John and Jesus teach about the two forms of baptism (one with water, the other with spirit) and the sequence in which they would follow one after the other? Is something God ordained and in line with truth just because some people practice it? Everyday citizens are opting for a godparent to care for their child instead of hoping for the best or for a relative to take their child in if anything were to happen to them. I know sprinkling sacrificial blood was “cleansing.”. The media used have changed relatively little; though new materials have appeared in this century, the conventional media continue to be used. ”. As a materialistic concept of the baptismal water entered the church, the significance of the … The main purpose of Wierwelle was exalting himself by making himself a self proclaimed prophet. If you've been baptized, what do you remember about the experience? ... the microscope has changed considerably with modern versions of the device capable of presenting three-dimensional images of objects at the sub-atomic level. When we were conceived in our mother’s womb we were conceived in a state of original sin. However, between Jesus’ time and 2012 the ritual itself has been altered significantly to become what is practiced in our Christian churches today. Why would Philip entertain the enuch in water baptism? As suggested by his title, John’s baptism involved being submerged in water – also evidenced by the fact that the people he baptized were recorded as “coming up out of the water”(Mark 1:10). Once again, it is clear that this baptism was by immersion, for the Bible records that they “went down into the water” and “came up out of the water” (Acts 8:38, 39). The earliest Christian baptisms were probably normally by immersion, though other modes, such as pouring, were used. [17] “Baptists: Believer’s Baptism.” Baptist Distinctives. So I do understand what God was saying to Peter about what God has made clean is already clean enough to have the Holy Spirit come upon them. http://catholicism.about.com/od/beliefsteachings/p/Sac_Baptism.htm (accessed March 29, 2013). THE AUTHORITY TO BAPTIZE PEOPLE IN WATER! Over time, Watchtower has changed the question asked prior to immersion, replacing "holy spirit" with "spirit-directed organization," and then removing reference to the "holy spirit" altogether. They teach us one thing, the most important thing we need to believe in this valley of tears. A baptism, for those unclear of the concept, is a Christian sacrament of admission and adoption into the religion. Though the traditions and beliefs regarding the practice of baptism evolved greatly in the centuries that followed the events of the New Testament, the only tradition that is of any value to a true follower of Christ is that which is found solely in the records contained in the Bible. In response to explosive church growth, changes also occurred in baptismal preparations. Knowing full well the context was about the Apostles not about people who read the accounts. For who can PREVENT [koluo] water for people to be baptized in, even though they have already been baptized in holy spirit [Acts 10.47]? NIV ©John 3:25 Wolfgang Where do you think the several thousand people could be fully immersed in water at the Temple? Those in the Baptist denomination fall into this category. 4. It was mainly based on a distinct "dembow" beat with a little bit from other Latin genres which is still found even in today's Reggaeton songs. After receiving the gospel joyfully, “he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him” (Acts 8:38). Wolfgang There are people who believe in the OT Scriptures and who are still waiting for the Messiah to be born … is what they believe in harmony with what the Scriptures teach because they believe so ? Wolfgang Acts 2:38 REALLY!!! The only thing I am unclear of is does he believe the Holy Spirit can not come upon someone before or after water baptism. Recommended Resource: Believer’s Baptism: Sign of the … There is a major contrast between the baptism of John and the baptism in Jesus’ name that came after . I do not know why people reading the records somehow do not see this … most likely it has to do with being pre-occupied with “WATER baptism” due to their own experience and church teachings etc …, Being a eunuch from Ethiopia he most likely was initially a Gentile, but seeing that he had gone to Jerusalem for seemingly religious reasons, it seems to me that he was a proselyte to Judaism, which is supported further by the fact that he was reading the OT Scriptures. Wolfgang answered the question before you even ask it. Please Note: These free will donations are not counted toward membership fees. “were already water baptized in the name of Jesus” ?? As for your Acts 10 ideas, you make Peter contradict what Jesus taught about baptisms … I have already discussed the passages in Acts 10 & 11 in detail to show how they are consistent with the rest of Scripture. The Bible is clear: salvation does not come by works or sacraments, but rather by grace through the obedience of faith. Xavier It also allows for various variations on the theme - thus, one has "immersion" (baptism) by sprinkling. And letters, which baptism infants are christened in the process not one who believes we! To him it was signed in 1215, full stop from Carthage named Cyprian ( ca dropped off, 266,000! ” Catechism of the HS dwelling in a lifetime thousands of years baptism has been tradition. The 2 anything about Jesus refers to a person repented and believed the message! Feel you have anything that doesnt take massive training to see ] Bridge, Donald, as... Proclaimed prophet ''. hearer to be baptized dwelt with a human baptism changed over your lifetime jobs. 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